01 March 2013 ~ 1 Comment

ARP 012 – The AR-15 Patrol Rifle

patrolSteve and Jake talk about one of the best options for law enforcement, the AR-15 Patrol rifle.


Welcome to episode #12 of the AR15 Podcast. I’m your host Jake Challand along with Steve Remy your friendly Texas Law enforcement agent from Gun Guy Radio. This is THEE podcast about youuurrrr favorite black rifle! This show is for you; whether you’re building your first AR or you’ve been building ARs for years. There’s something we can all do to take our black rifle to the next level.

AR-15 Product of the Week:

  • Magpul – B.A.D. Lever – Battery Assist Device

Main Topic: AR-15 Patrol Rifle

Common LE Choices:

  • http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm
  • http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757913_-1_757910_757787_image
  • http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/ColtCarbinesI.aspx
  • https://danieldefense.com/rifles.html?cat=91

Personal and department owned
SBRs and suppressors (test with ammo due to cycling issues on shorter gas systems); indoor shooting scenarios esp. with SBRs
Optics (iron vs red dot (AimPoint/EOTech)


Adjustable stocks for getting in/out of vehicles/confined locations

  • BROWNELLS – AR-15/M16 MOE Rifle Stock Kit

Ammo (Hornaday TAP, Fed 64 gr JSP TRU load, etc.)

  • Hornady Ammo 223 Rem 55gr. TAP 20bx

Rifle mounted lights (clean install vs wires/pressure plate)

  • Surefire X300 Weapon Light
  • Surefire Throw Lever WeaponLight – Black w/White LED

Mag holders (chest rig (quick plate carrier), thigh plates/pouch)
Slings (single point, multi-point (should be user preference))
Vehicle Mounting Systems (trunk boxes, within vehicle racks center seat or roof, keyed/push button


Listener Feedback:
Chris South of Dallas: Just had a few comments concerning the 7.62X39 podcast.
1. While current 7.62X39 ammo is supposed to be non-corrosive, I treat all imported 7.62X39 ammo as being corrosive. Safer that way.
2. Corrosive ammo is due to the primers used. Corrosive primers are less sensitive to temperature and other environmental effects and so are utilized in military ammo to insure proper ignition in any environment. Most surplus Russian etc ammo is corrosive due to this concern.
3. The salts that form after firing are the problem and the best/easiest way to clean up after shooting corrosive ammo that I found was to boil a large teapot of water, strip the rifle down to large component parts and then pour boiling water down the barrel and rinse all the parts that could be contacted by exhaust gases. The hot water heats up the parts and the barrel quickly. The hot metal vaporizes any water left behind while the salts have been dissolved and flushed onto the ground thereby minimizing any possibility of rust. When I have time, normal cleaning with water base solvents/brushes and patches is completed.
4. I don\’t like the gas impingement systems of the AR\’s that you mentioned for the 7.62X39 due to the large quantity of corrosive ammo out there. I prefer the long piston (SKS/AK47/SIG 556R) and short piston systems that keep gases away from the chamber. These recoil systems keep the corrosive gases away from the chamber/bolt/bolt carrier and minimize the potential corrosion. Sorry, but the normal AR system has significant shortcomings when used with corrosive primers.
5. Magazine springs – Most modern springs only degrade with cycles of compression and de-compression (sp?). For a number of reasons, I only load 28 rounds in a 30 round magazine. First, it avoids maximum spring compression, 2nd it makes it easier to insert and lock the magazine in a rifle with the bolt closed and finally it decreases the stress on the magazine feed lips which are the weakest part of a magazine. Damage to the feed lips is much more likely then spring degradation.
6. Love the Garand and have 2 of them, that said, the system is very sensitive to a number of mechanical effects and without proper design and ammo, can be very temperamental. I believe the post 50\’s AR/FNFAL/HK systems create significantly better rifle systems

Rod: This is for the AR-15 podcast. Reed has seem puzzled by the iron sights and their adjustments on M16A1 style rifles. Yes, you use a bullet to adjust the sights. A bullet is a tool that soldiers and Marines would be able to find. No special tool required. The front sight is adjustable for elevation only. The rear sight was windage only. The thinking at the time was you zeroed your weapon on the range for your battle sight zero, which was hold on target to 300 meters. You make all your adjustments on the range. In a fight you do not adjust your sights but use “Kentucky windage” if you need to adjust. Snipers may be able to change scope settings but the average infantryman does not have time to adjust their sights during a fight. When I was in the Army, I only had the M16A1. The A2 models had just started to come out to the active Army when I went to the Army Reserve and they also had the A1 models. I enjoy the podcast and like that you are both regular guys like me. I have an AR-15 that is much cooler than my old service weapon and I want to build an AR as a project gun as soon as parts become available again. I hope I was able to help you out as to the adjustments and why they were set up that way. Keep up the good work.

Jason: Jake and Reed! Another awesome AR-15 podcast, just listened to the 7.62×39 episode.. LOL Jake your comment that these 3rd world soldiers don’t have to worry about cleaning their AK’s because they don’t live very long. haha! Nearly rear-ended the car in front of me on that one. :-D
Wanted to share a tidbit, I have had experience with corrosive ammo and will never buy the shit again for a gas operated gun.. it pitted my piston and gas tube on my AK (barrel was chrome lined, thank god). I bought ammo labeled non-corrosive, more specifically, this was the description:

  • Russian 7.62x39mm
  • Newly Manufactured
  • Non-Corrosive     
  • Steel Case
  • Lacquer Coated
  • Berdan Primed
  • $209 for 1,000 rounds

Apparently if you ever buy non-US surplus ammo, even if it says non-corrosive on the friggin box, its best to assume its corrosive until you can prove otherwise.
A good way I found to test is to get a piece of non-treated steel, take a 7.62×39 round, pull out the bullet and empty out the powder, then puncture the primer onto the steel (so that it blasts onto the steel plate). Let the plate sit in a humid environment for a few days.. if it rusts, then the ammo is corrosive.
I just buy commercial stuff now for my AK.. Tula/Wolf/Monarch/Brown Bear. It might be 4 cents more per round or something, but you don’t have to worry about it destroying your guns. Keep those podcasts coming, and thanks for making my commute enjoyable. :-D

Michael Farmer: Jake do you or any you guys had any experience with hunter town arms kestrel 556 suppressor. These are affordable suppressor at a msrp of 499$ and from the video you can get multiple omni adapters and use the same suppressor for the ak74 and ar15. Worth checking out as I would love to know how quiet they are keep up the good work!!!!!
Or what about the Yankee hill machine phantom qd the standard stainless or the titanium I like the way the suppressor screws on their flash hider which is a phantom flash hider

Myles: Hello again, I wanted to say 3 things about your episode on 7.62×39 flavored ARs.
First off the 7.62 bullet doesn\’t destabilize or tumble nearly as much as the 223 round. Use of FMJ ammo in this caliber is strongly recommended against unless you are engaging hard targets. Some years ago I did water tank testing with an AK and a tank of water roughly approximating the size of an average American. The FMJ ammo sailed right through the tank and punched a hole in the bottom, hollow point ammo yawed slightly but arrived noticeably undamaged at the bottom of the tank. However soft point ammunition had a dramatic effect. The tank detonated, lifted slightly off the ground and discharged half the water inside. The projectile was found at the bottom of the tank, half of it was gone, reduced to lead fragments. The remaining part was a jagged mess of metal.
The rounds tested were Russian silver bear, I would imagine double tap, hornady or Cor-Bon rounds would have an even more devastating effect.
Corrosive ammo is corrosive due to salts in the primer compound, they must be neutralized with a cleaning agent, windex will work, otherwise if your gun is left sitting around living rust will form. In the barrel and gas system, I did this once, sorry I don\’t have pics, didn\’t occur to me to take photos. My barrel was fine because I cleaned it, but the gas system was a mess.
Finally, in 7.62×39 you skipped 2 non AK rifles in this calibre, the Robinson arms XCR and the Microtech 556. But since one of these companies is bankrupt and the other is run by an eccentric I will forgive these omissions.

Bob – Keokuk, Iowa: I am listening to the latest AR15 podcast on barrels. 4130 and 4140 steel were brought up so I thought I would give you some information from a metallurgist.
The difference between 4130 and 4140 steel is the amount of carbon. The first two digits indicate the family of the steel. In this case what is commonly called a Chrome-moly steel. The second two gives the amount of Carbon in the steel. In this case either 0.30% and 0.40%. Carbon has the largest influence on the achievable strength and hardness of a steel. The other elements such as manganese (not magnesium), chromium (chrome) and molybdenum (moly) help to toughen the steel and allow the steel to get harder and therefor tougher deeper into the steel. In college the saying was “moly makes your tool hard.” When heat treating a steel in order to get both a strong and tough steel you must be able to first get the steel very hard by quenching it from an austenizing temperature. After, you must temper it back to soften up part of the crystal structure. This lowers the strength and makes the steel tougher. You can get steels without the Cr and Mo hard but not as hard as the steels with. Therefor when the steel is tempered back it can be as hard in some cases but will not be as tough. Vanadium is a hardener but is usually added to limit grain growth at high temperatures.
(Toughness is the materials ability to withstand an impact while strength is its ability to withstand pressure. Often these properties are inverse of each other meaning as one goes up the other goes down)
So 4140 must be better than 4130 right? Not necessarily. Metallurgists pick steels for their ability to meet the mechanical properties required by the design of the customer that is as cheap and as easily worked as possible. In these alloy steels, more carbon makes the material more prone to crack during thermal and mechanical processing.
Stainless was also mentioned. As a general rule of thumb a stainless steel will have at least 12% chrome. Stainless comes in three different families: austenitic, martensitic and ferritic. Stainless steels are numbered using a 3 number system like 304 and 410. Letters after the numbers also further describe the alloy. For example “L” would describe a low carbon version while “H” would describe a high carbon version.
Austenitic is very corosion resistant, mostly non-magnetic, not hardenable by heat treatment and is what your forks and spoons are made out of. Ferritic is cheaper than austenitic, magnetic, and what you would make a muffler out of.
Barrels would be made out of martensitic. It is not as corrosion resistant as the others but is hardenable by heat treatment. The Cr makes it more expensive than the 4130 steels. Again this material can be difficult to work.
What is best? I don’t know. I think I would buy a 4130 or 4140 barrel.
I do not work with barrels or bar stock but I deal with cast versions of these steels daily making pressure vessels. I made a lot of generalizations to make the concepts more understandable. I was probably a bit long winded but I really did try to make it as simple as I could and still be as accurate as possible. Thanks for the great shows.

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After a day at the range during ROTC training our Platoon Sergeant had us line up with our field stripped M-1 Garand rifles, immerse them in a GI can (tall steel trash can) of soapy water boiling by means of an immersion heater and run a brush through the barrel a few times to clean it.  Next immerse the barrel in another GI can of boiling water to rinse it.  Then dry the barrel, easy since it's pretty hot, and coat it in and out with a light coat of gun oil before reassembly.